https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=WTYet-qf1jo
Watch the video, and read along as you go. This is a commentary on it.
His complaint that stupid things happen for no obvious reasons... I've never, ever had that happen to me.
How the hell is his weather app popping up? I've never had that happen, and that's the only weather app I have.
He complains he can't get rid of the weather app, you can get rid of it in the top left corner. He probably was clicking in the top left corner, and switching apps. He never learned how to close metro apps, when it's super easy.
He can go to top left, slide down, see every open metro app, right click it, and kill it.
His gesture ability is terrible, and he's doing it wrong. He's a flat out idiot.
WINDOWS 8 DOES NOT HAVE SWIPE CONTROL AT ALL IN THE DESKTOP ENVIRONMENT, AND HE HAS NO IDEA WHAT HE'S TALKING ABOUT. His complaints about gestures with a touch pad are wrong, because windows 8 doesn't have gestures with a touch pad, at all. It has corner touches, which are not gestures.
It activates when you touch the *edge* of the screen, which is what he's doing wrong.
I have windows 8 on my laptop with a touch pad, and my desktop, which I have *none* of the issues he's having.
He couldn't figure out how to get to control panel... start, settings... or win-e, type recovery.
This guy is a moron, flat out moron.
Why does an OS have to be made for "everyone"? Windows 8 assumes you know a few things, like the word program.
On linux, a lot of things are buried to be *only* in the terminal, yet it's unacceptable to need to press start, settings, or win-e, then type what you want.
The start menu is *still* in the bottom left corner! All you do is slide your mouse there. For power users, it's great that way, I don't want a huge button wasting my startbar space, like it has for the last 22 years. Trying to baby people who can't learn by documentation, makes things worse for everyone else. Contextual labeling is stupid, and I don't want it or need.
I am completely, and totally sick of babying people. Microsoft put faith in its users to be able to figure out power user features that never existed before, and I thank them for it.
The video maker used windows 8 for 30 minutes, and then made a video. I've used it for over 3 months, without *any* of the issues he's having. Windows 8 isn't meant to be learned in 30 minutes. Once you do learn it, it's easy.
Learn it.
Get over it.
Sticking with Linux and Windows 7 just the same. Mostly Linux.
ReplyDeleteSeems to me it's that it doesn't look like 98/XP/Vista. With this change people that use Windows seem to get lost on the 'Metro' screen and don't understand that 'underneath' it's still Windows - similar to Win7 (which many users seem to like).
ReplyDeleteThe start screen is just a huge start menu, that optionally can run specialized full screen programs (or not, your choice)
ReplyDeleteYou're absolutely right. The issue isn't the operating system, it's the person using it. Problem exists between chair and keyboard.
Use what you want, just don't bash something without knowing a lot about it.
ReplyDelete(you didn't, thank you)
How is a new user supposed to *know* how to close Metro apps, or about "hot corners?" What the hell, Win-e? And your comment about Linux a lot of the time needing the terminal is
ReplyDeletenot true, I barely *need* to use the terminal, though I often use it out
of personal choice, or it's just quicker, but the average user does not need to.
Win-e is optional, you can just press start, and settings. Win q goes straight to files, and win e goes straight to settings.
ReplyDeleteAs to how is the average person supposed to know, it actually *demos* and shows you how to do it, during the initial configuration of the computer, during the time where you setup passwords, and other related things.
Or you can just google it.
Another thing, about the terminal.
ReplyDeleteWhile many things can be done without terminal access, most linux documentation is written using the terminal, and not the gui.
Depends, which documentation are you referring to? Ubuntu's own documentation does not.
ReplyDeleteLet me give you an example.
ReplyDeleteI have a netbook, with a broadcom 4311 wifi chip. There is a linux binary for it, but the default binary is not included in the OS. Infact, you have to terminal disable another driver, just to make this work.
On windows, I'd go to the acer website, download the file, and install it, graphically.
When I google "how to install broadcom 4311", this is the very first thing that comes up.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=896713
A lot of questions like this simply won't be manageable if you absolutely refuse to use a terminal.
Or another one, lets say you want to install chromium on debian. Simple enough, right?
http://wiki.debian.org/Chromium
All terminal instructions
Well that would not be an issue on computers that come with Linux, such as System 76.
ReplyDeleteDebian is not aimed at beginners.
I've installed windows on computers, and I've installed linux on computers.
ReplyDeleteWindows goes like this. Load USB, download drivers, place drivers on USB, install windows, install drivers from usb.
Linux goes like this, Load USB, install, unload kernel module from terminal (broadcom wifi conflicts), load kernel module. Repeat every kernel upgrade.
The only distros I have found that you do not need to do this, are crunchbang, and archbang, because they specifically compensated for this issue.
Your solution of using system 76 does not work for people who build their own computers from parts, and also costs more. Even if you specifically chose linux kernel components, you are then increasing your cost, to do so, due to limited options.
Then there are graphics drivers. Graphics drivers get updated on a very regular basis to handle new games (you know, steam on linux now). To get good performance, you need to use closed binaries on either platform.
On windows, hardware drivers are very modular. You can upgrade your eth, without disturbing your camera card reader, or video drivers.
On linux, most drivers are in the kernel, so to update them to the newest versions, you need to update your kernel. I made the mistake once of upgrading the kernel while AMD drivers were installed, and was too stupid to keep the old kernel as a backup. I tried to fix it from command line, but I ended up not being able to, so I reinstalled (thank god for a /home directory)
I like Windows 8. I've installed Classic Shell to disable the menus that pops up because I disliked it and I also made Windows boot in desktop mode. I never use the metro interface and I only use the window key when I want to search for an app. Any reference to Windows 8 that don't mention the task manager is a missed opportunity. The new task manager alone is worth switching to Windows 8.
ReplyDeleteThe new task manager is nice.
ReplyDeleteI actually tried using msconfig to shut off startup items, and it redirected me to task manager, which was interesting.
If classic shell is your thing, so be it, but I like metro.
Glad you're enjoying it regardless
I remember you saying when you had the developers kit during work that you didn't like at first.
ReplyDeleteWhat made you have the change?
I spent more than 5 minutes trying to learn it.
ReplyDeleteI don't like the default configuration, and I had to learn the quirks (which I eventually bumped into a youtube video on)
Once I did that, it was fine.
if windows 8 wanted a minimal ui for power users, they would have made a search bar on windows key press, and 0 menus at all that pop up, except maybe an auto complete list.
ReplyDeleteI'm glad Linux has things in terminal only, most Linux I work with is headless, when you make a GUI for everything, the backend becomes inconvenient. just ask apple and in many ways MS too
For power users, having a few things quickly accessible with the mouse does not mean slower (the draw time is less than one frame), and the initial winRT start screen has an invisible search box.
ReplyDeleteTap win, type stuff, and it's there right away. win searches apps, win w searches settings, and win q searches files
Why would the backend become inconvenient, if all the gui does, is call the commands you'd normally have on a headless setup? I guess if you try to build them as a single unit, it could become hell, but if they're packaged correctly...
Techderp has a point here, folks.
ReplyDeleteThe creator of this video, Brian Boyko, has done this kind of thing before. He wrote a review of OS X back in 2007 and had several issues, but one thing that many people overlooked is that he was running it (at least in one case) on a system that was pretty much under spec'd. He also complained that he had problems working with his documents, but he was using the free NeoOffice (it uses the OpenOffice / LibreOffice code) - so, hardly the fault of the computer or the operating system.
I mean, let's face it, sure the interface is different, but it can be learned, or changed to something resembling Windows 7 if desired, for free or for a very economical price depending on what program you like (I happen to like Start8, so I'm willing to pay the 5 bucks).
Really, you can tell he set out to create a sensational video.
I could easily do the same thing with Linux by selecting Ubuntu 12.10 and trying to load it on my HP Mini-Note 2133, which is terribly unsuited for Unity due to the graphics chipset in the netbook.
(Note: even Windows 8 is faster on that machine, and it was definitely *NOT* designed for Windows 8.)
It would be easy for me to slag Linux in general by using Ubuntu as "the face of Linux" when we know it isn't, it would be easy for me to slag Linux in general by ignoring the fact that openSUSE 12.3 with GNOME runs perfectly on the same netbook, albeit a bit slower, and that Debian Wheezy with LXDE runs like greased lightning and has a rather logical, Windows XP/7 like interface, not that dog's breakfast they call Unity.
Well, it is if you show it to someone who has only used Windows! I could name a few folks (none here) - but I won't - who have publicly said that they think Ubuntu has a really good shot at replacing Windows for a lot of users because of the "mess" of Windows 8. Umm... folks... Unity's pretty damned confusing too, and on top of it, you have to learn all new software, because most of your old stuff won't work.
I'll go on to say that many of the same Ubuntu cheerleaders when challenged on this will say, "Well then, install KDE or something else."
Yes, I agree. Or, when you buy a new computer with Windows 8 and don't like Metro, rather than throw out everything, how about installing RetroUI or Start8 or Classic Shell? At least then you can get down to work right away without having to learn much of anything.
Seriously, I love all operating systems so I'm not trying to pick on Linux or whatnot, just to say that Boyko's video was kinda slanted from the start.
Also, I'm certainly not trying to say Linux = Ubuntu - it is far from that. Ubuntu's cool and all, but there are so many other distros out there that I personally wouldn't call Ubuntu "the face of Linux", it has many faces.
Seriously, unity can go to hell.
ReplyDeletePeople who are linux lovers have absolutely no problem customizing the hell out of their product, yet making the slightest change to windows 8 seems unreasonable, because it should just work out of the box.
You don't like full screen start menu? Get a different one, there are about a dozen options. I happen to like it. You hear the same exact thing about linux desktop environments.
You mentioned netbooks made for windows 8. I actually tried mint cinnamon on my netbook... it stuttered, ran horrifically slow, and it drove me insane. I put windows 8 on it, and it was perfectly fine, much better than mint with cinnamon. I even *uninstalled* compiz, and windows 8 with all of it's graphical fanciness ran better.
Hardware in my netbook?
n280 cpu 1.66ghz
gma950, 133mhz I believe?
2gb ddr2 533 cas 3
ocz onyx ssd (slow)
Why does windows 8 run decently fast on it, while mint does not? Is cinnamon super bloated (maybe?)
I really have no idea.
Seriously, I put mint on there hoping it would be faster.
The thing that amazed me about the Win8 launch was the utter lack of any of the helpful stuff MS could have easily done (and did in the past) to ease the transition for users. The big complaint (which you dismiss) is that users are ignorant. They're not stupid, they just don't know what to do. Once they know what to do they'll be fine but they have to find out somehow! MS could easily have had that stupid doggie or paperclip guy come and bounce around and tell them where the start button was hiding on first use, or how to get back to metro, or how to close a widget, etc. But they didn't and a lot of people got frustrated. I'm happy to hear you are one of those users that actively try to figure things out so it wasn't an issue for you, but you also build your own PCs which most users just don't do. You can't blame every consumer for their product ignorance - you have to blame the UI designer or the product guy who signed off on shipping a product which for the first time in 20 years diverges from the standard plan and then didn't bother to put in any hepful hints for how to use it.
ReplyDeleteThere is an introductory guide that you have to go through when you initially configure windows, with user name nsuch. It's totally there. It's all I really needed.
ReplyDeleteI'm sick of people bashing the design, because nobody wants to read, or watch a 2 minute video. There are *hundreds* of manuals on how to learn all you need to learn in 5 minutes, in video form, or in print form, but nobody does it. They want to be *forced* to go through it. When you buy a humidifier(check derpy new post), it comes with an instruction manual. When you buy a tv, it comes with an instruction manual.
Now here's the question. Where should the PC instruction manual come from. Oh, that's right, THE OEMS DROPPED THE BALL AND DIDN'T INCLUDE ONE, or if they did, nobody bothered to read it!